Truth is, neither party 'gets' the economy

An exchange I had at Daily Beast. Meghan McCain had written an article Why Republicans Don't Get The Internet.

carouzer

Meghan, Honey, it has become pretty apparent over the last eight years that Republicans not only don't get the internet, they don't get the economy, they don't get taking responsibility for their actions, they don't get critical thinking and they don't get having respect for others--even those who disagree with them.

What they do get is talking points, spewing dysfunctional right wing dogma, evangelicals, padding the pocketbooks of the rich, the joys of deregulation (a la Bernie Madoff) and pandering to the "base," which, thank God, seems to be rapidly shrinking.

liviapeacock

Carouzer, you're pretty much spot on. No matter how intelligent and reasonable Miss McCain is, she just represent the typical out of touch Republican. They will have to wait a generation at least.
Keep at it, Meghan, you are a voice of reason that this democrat can at least stomach reading (unlike that awful Nicole Wallace whose snarkiness turns me off within two sentences)

Servius

@carouzer Truth is, neither party 'gets' the economy. You keep going on about deregulation when we've been engaging in an orgy of Keynesianism. Then the new administration prescribes more Keynesianism to get us out of the mess caused by Keynesianism.

You can't stimulate the economy by taking money from the economy and putting it back in the economy.

And it's rich you going on about "having respect for others - even those who disagree with them" when you disrespect the author by calling her honey.

PurpleHerman

Servius, at the end of the day, stimulus funding isn't taken from our economy but rather is bankrolled by the Chinese (among others) via the sale of Treasury bills and other government debt instruments. The only portion that is immediately "taken" from the economy is the interest on those bills, which can be deferred by the issuing of more bills, ad infinitum - so long as other countries are willing to fund our debt.

This situation is of course a problem in its own right, but the premise that stimulus removes money from the current economy simple isn't true. In fact, because stimulus funding doesn't have to be supported from current tax revenue, its positive effects now on a faltering economy should more than outweight its future costs in a more robust economy that it would hopefully foster.

Servius

@PurpleHerman When government spends money it must raise the money from somewhere.

If by taxes, it removes the money directly from the producers which stifles the economy.

If by borrowing, it competes for capital with the producers raising their costs and stifling the economy. Even if the money comes from China.

If by printing the money, it devalues the money used to acquire capital which stifles the economy.

Furthermore, the debt that's piled up must be paid back by raising taxes, borrowing, or printing money which stifles the economy in the future. Besides, after taking the money from the producers government then uses it to bid capital away from the producers once again stifling the economy.

As they say, "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch."

like-mind

Greetings, Ms. McCain, it's a pleasure to read your Post. [just wanted to put some distance between me and the 'Honey' guy or gal, up there...]

imho, as long as the GOP gathers around hate, they can have Ethernet cables up the wahzoo and they still won't explode onto the Web. The free exchange of ideas on the Web requires a tolerance simply not demonstrated by the majority of die-hard Republicans. Just as the twit-tweet example about the person on the tarmac, when new technology provides an avenue for the same ol' thing, it does not 'spread' online. The online audience for GOP misinformation ("a true bipartisan Stimulus Bill would mean half Republican"), self-righteous opinions ("support everything we say or you're not patriotic"), and insults ("he's a Muslim - kill him!") resides on hate-sites which are and will always be on the fringe of the Web. Novelty is self-generating online, but novelty is the enemy of the conformism and the restricted thinking that is demanded by the rigid neo-cons. It's the thoughtful conservatives who ran over to Obama - those in march-step were busy agreeing with each other and hating everyone else.

And look at Steele - we all looked him over, hoping he might bring a fresh start to the GOP, and what does he do? He begins with a cheap put-down (the Stimulus Bill's Bling).

As long as the message is negative, it will never sustain enough continued interest to go viral. When Limbaugh /O-Reilly /Hannity /[hater's name goes here] lose their grip on the Party, the GOP might have a chance. When Statesmen and women lead the GOP with respect for the other sides, then their message will burst the seams of any media available, including online.

Servius

@like-mind Who's gathering around hate? Who spent 8 years calling President Bush a chimp? Who is hunting people who supported Proposition 8 in California? Who threw cement bags at buses at the other party's convention?

You're own post decrying negativity and crying for tolerance was intolerant and full of name calling. "GOP misinformation ... self-righteous opinions ... he's a Muslim - kill him! ... hate sites ...". If you want a real hate site check out Kos or DU. If you want reason and thoughtfulness come have a discussion at #tcot and check the snarkiness at the door.

PurpleHerman

@servius

But isn't the point that, currently, there is NO competition for borrowed capital because the banks don't trust each other and no individual/company in their right mind would expand their business in the current climate, hence the need for government to sop up the execess capital sloshing around the world in order kick-start our economy?

Servius

@PurpleHerman

I think it's important to distinguish between capital and money. Capital is the means of production such as factories, computers, and people. Money is used to acquire capital.

As the bubble pops, money is vanishing because it was created by loaning it into existence. The banks created out of thin air the money they are now losing. Once the bubble is completely deflated and the money supply is back in line with the actual wealth of the country we will begin to grow again.

With this massive amount of borrowing the government is trying to reinflate the bubble.

At this point I should give you a couple links that explain better than I can here.

http://mises.org/story/3329 Describes the complete business cycle.

http://tinyurl.com/2n3sg9 Talks about how money is created. Money is Debt.